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tettheeviltwin
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Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:59 am Post subject: Greg’s Guide To LARP Guns |
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Hiya,
It’s come up a few times on these forums, and it isn’t straight forward for several reasons, so I thought I’d make a topic of it, starting with a bit of info about what our options are.
Bit of background - as well as having a LARP history, I got into airsoft nearly 2 years ago. I’m also a big movie fan, collect and have even made a few replica movie props. Aren’t I cleva. Doesn’t mean I guarantee everything I say is correct or the best thing to do though – use the info as you will.
Episode IV: The VCR Act
Along time ago (October 2007) the VCR act became law and this is the number one source of confusion over what it is and isn’t legal to buy, and consequently determines what your choices are. The intention of the VCR act (relating to imitation firearms) was to stop criminals using realistic looking bb guns, toys, blank firers, airguns and anything else that could easily be mistaken for a real gun to commit a crime. The key thing isn’t that it fires anything or makes loud bangs - it is all about how it looks – specifically whether it looks like a “Modern Firearm”.
Rule 1: “Modern Firearm means any firearm other than one the appearance of which would tend to identify it as having a design and mechanism of a sort first dating from the year 1870.”
This basically means that Wild West and earlier guns are absolutely fine, any more modern guns than that are the ones covered by the VCR act.
As the lever action design and mechanism was invented prior to1870, even John Wayne’s 1873 Winchester carbine and Zoe’s 1887 and 1892 Winchesters are not considered “Modern Firearms”. The thumb break-loading six gun mechanism - the kind where one bullet is loaded at a time and then the cylinder needs to be rotated a sixth of a turn to be able to load the next one - are also not Modern Firearms. So Wild West six guns like the good old Colt Peacemaker and Jayne’s LeMatt revolver are fine too.
Anything later are Modern Firearms though, basically any pump action shotguns, bolt action rifles, magazine fed automatic pistols and rifles, machine guns and up. Modern Firearms also include revolvers where the cylinder swings open to the side to load bullets, like American police revolvers for example.
There are of course responsible people who want to use modern firearm looking things though, and the VCR act has included clauses for them. The three main groups that have clauses written for them are theatrical / film / television companies, historical re-enactment groups and airsofters. LARPing definitely does not count as any of these – you can argue all you want that LARP counts as re-enactment but it legally doesn’t, and if a shop or private individual cannot prove you belong to any of these three groups, it is illegal for them to sell or even give you a Modern Firearm looking anything. It is also illegal to make your own Modern Firearm looking prop - even if you do carve it out of soap and paint it black with prison issue boot polish.
If you own a Modern Firearm looking thing but don’t belong to an exempt group - fear not, they are legal to own as long as you acquired them before the act came into effect in October 2007.
Rule 2: Modern Firearm looking props, toys, bb guns etc. are also exempt from the VCR act and legal to purchase without belonging to any exempt group if they are more than 50% coloured in a non-standard “safe” colour. The Home Office has provided a range of “safe” colours and as you would expect, these are all very loud, near fluorescent colours. UK airsoft shops and players refer to these as “two-tone” guns, and anyone, airsofter or not, is free to buy one as long as they are 18 or over. It is however still illegal for you to repaint two-tone guns – or even a Modern Firearm looking toy - non safe colours if you don’t already qualify for one of the exemptions.
If you don’t already know what they look like, have a look at two-tone guns on any UK airsoft web shop. I’ve seen them in three different colours- green, blue and red, and I personally think the blue ones don’t look too bad. The Alliance “purple bellies” had big splodges of purple paint on their armour and guns – I don’t think the blue two-tones would look out of place and certainly wouldn’t have a problem with anyone using any of the colours.
Thanks to two-tones then, you can now buy more modern looking - all be it colourful props – as long as you are 18 or over.
Rule 3: UKARA registered airsofters can buy and do what they want! Realising that they were about to be shut down by the VCR act, airsoft retailers got together with airsoft clubs and came up with the UKARA database. This lets reputable airsoft clubs register their members on a national database that reputable retailers can check you are on when you order bb guns. This lets them prove that they have checked you are a member of one of the exempt groups and they can legally sell you a Modern Firearm looking thing. The idea is that you need to be a genuine airsofter to able to become a member of an airsoft club and qualify for the exemption and the UKARA database is the recognised method for establishing this. So as long as you are on the UKARA database (as I and other LARPers are) you a free to buy as many unbelievably hyper realistic Modern Firearm bb guns as you want, and bring as many to Serenity LARP as you can fit in your car boot. You still can’t sell them, swap them or “give” them to non-exempt people though – that is illegal. You will have to be a participating genuine airsofter before a club will let you become a member and you can get on the database though - this isn't a quick method for tricking your way to an exemption.
Rule 4: Although the vast majority of the guns in Firefly, Serenity, Star Wars and many other sci-fi movies are thinly (sometimes not even) disguised real guns, there are still plenty that aren’t. If your prop does not have an identifiable real world design or mechanism at all – like a Star Trek phaser or, for reasons I can’t explain, Star Wars blasters, these aren’t concerned by the VCR act. So if your prop isn’t based on a real world modern firearm mechanism, it shouldn’t fall under the VCR act. I can only assume that as Star Wars guns fire laser beams, they don’t use Modern Firearm mechanisms - even though the props themselves are almost all dressed up World War 2 guns.
There’s a big market out there for replica resin and metal, kits and prebuilt prop replicas, that wouldn’t look out of place in Serenity available, giving us even more options.
Rule 5: This is dusey. Real deactivated (with deactivation certificates) gun are exempt from the VCR rules.
Deactivated weapons are not allowed at serenity larp, see Jon's post below - admin
I assume that this is because there is already legislation in place regarding deactivated guns, but it is indeed legal (I suspect as long as you are over 18) for you to buy a real ( but officially deactivated) gun that can look just like it did when it left the factory, but it isn’t legal to buy a cheap plastic black toy gun. So there's also the option of buying a real but non-functional gun. What a wonderful world.
Coming soon…
Episode V: What And Where To Buy, For All Tastes And Budgets
Cheers.
Greg.
PS. Looking forward to Event 5…
Last edited by tettheeviltwin on Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nick
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Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:10 am Post subject: |
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De-activated guns before 1995 must not have any moving parts like a trigger or cocking mechanism. The government is trying to get them out of circulation because of people managing to re-activate them. Post 1995 can have moving parts like a trigger, detachable magazine etc. , cocking mechanism. The process in which the weapon is deactivated will affect the balance of the firearm.
NB. the government may be changing the law on de-activated firearms for 2 reasons. 1. to stop them being re-activated and 2. to bring us in line with some EU countries like France and Belgium. If you are going to buy one it has to be deactivated in the UK by law. DO NOT BUY A DE-ACTIVATED FIREARM FROM OUTSIDE THE UK. The police will have serious words with you. |
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tettheeviltwin
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Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Hiya,
Thanks for the info Nick. Personally I'd avoid de-activated and also blank firing guns if you are thinking of buying a gun phys-rep for LARPing. Apart from the ever tightening laws regarding them, they are also likely to be (by far) the most expensive option. Although they are an option, unless you are already a collector of them, getting one just for LARPing is a bit overkill in my opinion.
Cheers.
Greg. |
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Jon
It's all my fault
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 149
Location: Londinium
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone reading this handy guide. Please bear in mind that we do not allow de-activated guns as phys-reps at Serenity.
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"I aim to misbehave..." |
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tettheeviltwin
Recruit
Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:21 am Post subject: |
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Hiya,
Taken a little longer than I expected to get back to the post, but here we are. Here's today's disclaimer type of thing: I've no affiliation with any site or stores I mention. Some I have bought things from, some just caught my eye (I'll point this out). I'm sure everyone has their own recommendations, but these are my suggestions. These are also just my opinions and preferences.
Episode V: A New Toy
The Sci-Fi gun can be many things - a professional tool, a lifestyle necessity, a costume accessory, a back story, a comedic prop, a character's signature, etc. It can mean nothing to a character, or it could mean everything. No matter why you character carries a gun, it is going to be a part of your costume, and you'll want it to look just as good as the rest of it. It may stay tucked in your belt for the whole event, but accessories really do make a costume. Finally, remember that feeling when you first strapped on your very first LARP sword of your own?
The good news is there's a prop LARP gun available for all characters, tastes, and most importantly, budgets.
Let's start in the middle. Last time I looked (and it's been a while) a standard LARP sword cost £40 - £50. As the Sci-Fi LARP equivalent, it isn't unreasonable to consider spending the same on a prop gun. There is also a wide range of excellent options out there for a budget of £40 - £50.
The Wild West is Zoe's, Jayne's and to a degree Mal's, signature gun look. Zoe's Winchesters and Mal’s pistol will be covered later, but Jayne's Firefly pistol is the perfect example - a customised Le Mat revolver. A Google search turned up this page http://crimsonsguns.tripod.com/movieguns.html which has pictures and information including the hero guns from Firefly, and Jayne’s pistol.
Here's where you can get a very nice replica of the original Le Mat for £48.50
http://www.linedancing-shop.co.uk...=0d62f91d48e9c234f02a90c63450406a
While I haven't bought a replica gun from that shop, I have bought a few things for LARP games from them an never had any problems. They do seem to know their VCR an replica laws though you just need to be over 18 to buy one), and their prices compare well. There are quite a few Wild West replicas on there in this price range, both common and esoteric. If you are thinking of buying the Le Mat and haven't seen one of the ones already being used in Serenity LARP, keep in mind that while they are impressive and realistic, they are huge! I don’t think any of the Wild West replicas look out of place in Serenity LARP as they are, but are also easy to customise for a more Sci-Fi look if desired or for other systems. For the first couple of Serenity games I bought a Volcanic Pistol (same as the one available from the site above) and customised it inspired by the Firefly props.
Here’s some advantages and disadvantages of the £40 - £50 Wild West guns:
They look realistic without breaking any VCR laws
Anyone over 18 years old can buy them
They are very similar indeed to those actually used in Firefly
They are ready to go out of the box
The have moving bits like the real things
They are easy to Sci-Fi up if wanted
They may look out of place in a modern or other Sci-Fi (unless customised) LARP
£40 - £50 isn’t a small amount of money
If you are after a more modern look (just about every other gun in Firefly or Serenity) the best option has to be airsoft. If you’re a re-enactor or UKARA airsofter, you probably have your own sources, so this is really for those who aren’t. Two-tone airsoft guns have the minimum done to make as realistic coloured gun as possible, while making them legal to buy as long as you are over 18 years old. They also two-tone the cheapest models – they may make rubbish airsoft guns, but that means nothing when you are LARPing with it. Here’s a couple of pages from a store I’ve bought stuff from a few times, and show the range available:
http://www.actionhobbys.co.uk/Shotguns-Spring-Rifles_B22C4L.aspx
http://www.actionhobbys.co.uk/Pistols-Spring-Powered_B22C4K.aspx
The first thing you notice is how colourful they are. The second is how much less they cost than the Wild West replicas. The third is the range you can choose from for £10 to £25 – everything from a tiny pistol to long assault riffles.
First a word about their quality. They are cheap for a reason – they aren’t much more than toys. A lot of them come with accessories - scopes, torches, silencers, lasers (use of which is banned in the Serenity game for safety) and these are barely good enough to be called toys. They may not be any good for airsoft, but they are powerful enough to blind someone if used carelessly, so be careful!
Secondly, there’s the colour. My personal opinion is that we have to accept that there’s a need to use two-tones, that they are a necessary evil. I would also stick to the blue ones ad they look the least garish. And a little Alliance stoogeish, like you liberated it from a fed guard or something. Other players and organisers may disagree though, and it’s not for me to decide if they spoil the atmosphere or not.
Lastly, the finish of the plastic is cheap plastic looking, even the black bits. That’s because they are made out of cheap plastic (most of them anyway).
The options don’t end with the budget guns though, most UK stores will two-tone any standard coloured airsoft gun they sell. Just about any type of gun is available for between £80 and £150 – if you are willing to spend this much. If I was going to get a modern gun but was limited to two-tones, I’d start with one of the cheap blue ones, and then customise it. Those cheap and nasty accessories you get with them I mentioned earlier come in useful for this. More than a few of the props in Firefly, Serenity and other Sci-Fis are normal guns with excessive scopes and bits stuck on them, used to disguise them. I’d go a bit further than this, keeping the bright coloured bits the same to keep it legal, but I’ll leave customisation to the next post.
Here’s a roundup of the pros and cons of choosing a modern two tone airsoft based prop:
They are cheap - £10 to £25.
There are guns of all sizes, from concealable pistols, submachine guns, shotguns to assault weapons.
They are easy to customise, and many come with accessories to help with it.
They are very colourful – possibly too colourful.
They are cheaply made, and can look it.
I was going to leave this option until next time, but here it is anyway – TV and movie prop replicas. Prop replicas basically come in four types – fan / scratch built, resin kit, official replicas, and actual / screen used props.
Screen used props – including those actually used in Firefly and Serenity do turn up in auctions, and as you would expect, they aren’t cheap. I highly doubt that after spending the kind of money a screen used gun prop would cost you, you would ever take it to a LARP event!
Official TV and movie prop replicas are becoming very common and popular, but can be expensive and have limited edition runs. There was an official replica of Mal’s gun, but it was a limited run that was released with the Serenity movie. It was also affected by the VCR act coming into effect, and at least one movie memorabilia store stopped selling them. I’m personally undecided whether Mal’s gun is exempt from the VCR, and I’ve also seen conflicting policies over it’s sale. At around £140, I also thought it was over priced. I’ve not checked eBay for current prices – it may be hard to get hold of – which means it will be expensive. I know of one possible source where it may still be available in a sale, but I doubt there will be any left. Many other movies have official replicas that wouldn’t look out of place in Serenity. Master Replicas are the biggest manufacturer, as until recently, they had the license to make Star Wars prop replicas, but also did Star Trek, MIB, Aliens and others, and will shortly be doing Ghostbusters! They were also limited edition runs and very expensive. As shop stocks have run out now, eBay will probably be the only source for these, but expect to pay £150 to £1500 depending on it’s collectability. It should also be noted that Master Replicas also did a range of 1/6 scale props so make sure it is full size!
Fan / scratch built props can range dramatically in quality – from very crude, to significantly better than official replicas. There’s a fan company making a replica of Mal’s gun which from all reports is better than the official one, but costs a bit more. I’m also still unsure of the legality of buying a replica of Mal’s gun, so I can’t really go into it any further. The rest of fan / scratch built props will wait till next time, as it will fit in well with making your own props…
Resin kits are probably the best option out of all the prop replicas. Resin kits are moulded, usually static (no moving parts) prop that come in pieces and require finishing, assembly and painting. The vast majority of prop guns used in movies and TV shows are made exactly the same way. Only for “close ups” are more detailed and realistic props used. Mal’s pistol is the only major prop I’m aware of that was only ever built out of resin – there was never a “metal” version and it was originally a composite of resin mould of different parts of different guns and things. The quality of resin kits can also vary greatly, but the moulding process has advanced to the point where very high quality replicas are now available. Rather than give you yet another lecture, I’ll go straight to a recommendation, and why. Here are the addresses for an eBay shop for both the UK eBay, and because it has more info on it, US eBay:
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/w...0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/wilcomodels
Here’s a mention on www. serenitystuff.com (loads of great info on this site if you haven’t found it already):
http://www.serenitystuff.com/2006...pistol-replica-from-wilco-models/
I have never purchased anything from them before, but there are three reasons why I would seriously consider choosing Wilco Models if buying a resin kit:
1. The good reviews in other model making sites.
2. One of the reviews mentions that they are big – I don’t know why, but resin props tend to be significantly smaller than you think they should. That it seemed large is a good sign.
3. One of the reviewers mentions that Wilco Models will assemble and paint their kits for you. It’s an old post but quotes only $20 to do this. I have all the tools, paints and a bit of experience needed to do this, and without doubt I’d still rather pay Wilco Models to do it for me.
If you are considering getting one of these, I strongly recommend emailing Wilco Models directly instead of buying through eBay. You will also save a lot of money on postage if buying them together as well. If Wilco are anything like the other model kit makers I’ve dealt with, they will be helpful and interested. Prices range from around £40 to £60, a large proportion of which is postage from the US. Customs may add £20 on top of that if you are unlucky, but seeing what Wilco will do and combining shipping will take a large chunk out of the cost. My opinion is that this is definitely a good option at a relatively reasonable cost. Don’t forget, unlike Western guns and modern airsoft guns, these are kits of the replicas in the movies – they don’t need any extra customisation to make them look Sci-Fi. They also make great paperweights and desk toys when you aren’t LARPing!
OK, so now you have some options, rough pricing and sources. It isn’t the end there though – you may have a Wild West gun or a modern airsoft prop, but what about making it look like it really belongs in a Sci-Fi LARP, and even more importantly look like it belongs to your character? What if you chose to make something totally unique? What do you do if you don’t want to carry it around in your hand all day? Tune in next week (or when I have time), same beagle time, same beagle channel.
Cheers.
Greg.
PS. In the mean time, here’s a quiz for you – what is it about Mal’s gun that makes it’s VCR act status confusing, while Zoe’s and Jayne’s guns status is clear? |
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Garrett
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Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 5
Location: Gloucester
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | what is it about Mal’s gun that makes it’s VCR act status confusing, while Zoe’s and Jayne’s guns status is clear? |
My guess would be that it's the only one of the three NOT built around a pre-1870 gun. If I recall correctly, Mal's gun is built around a Taurus revolver which would be covered under the Act, but as it's been modified you could argue that it doesn't resemble a real gun anymore: therefore it's status would be "unclear".
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Knowing is half the battle. The other half is violence. |
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Sven
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Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Something I'm surprised nobody has mentioned is the Edison Giacattoli range of metal cap guns. This range is mostly wild-west themed, but has some modern day pistols in it also (though the modern day ones are blue).
Some of the range is decidedly kid-sized, but it includes a 25cm long cap-firing revolver (£10) and a 79cm long winchester style rifle (£25)
http://www.bbguns.co.uk/821_1.html |
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admin
Ultimate Cosmic Power!!!
Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 74
Location: Everywhere and nowhere
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| Jon wrote: | | ...we do not allow de-activated guns as phys-reps at Serenity. |
Just out of interest, why is that, Jon?
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Jon
It's all my fault
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 149
Location: Londinium
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:32 am Post subject: |
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Because at the end of the day (despite assurances of exclusive use) we run on sites where young people (despite the prescence of many non-CRB checked adults), dog walkers (who enjoy trespassing) and inquisitive site teams (who don't fully appreciate our attempts at immersion) are often present and all too eager to get in the way.
In these situations it's a lot harder to shrug of a deactivated weapon (what was once an actual gun) as a 'toy' and 'just a bit of fun'.
So far it's proven a ruling that isn't broken so I see no reason to fix it. However I'd happily consider allowing de-acs in any future firearm based systems I'm involved in now I'm more familiar with firearms laws.
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admin
Ultimate Cosmic Power!!!
Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 74
Location: Everywhere and nowhere
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:33 am Post subject: |
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Gotcha. Makes kinda sense.
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Don't make me destroy you... |
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